JIM LEHRER: Judy Woodruff was on the flight with Huckabee to New Hampshire this morning and spoke with him again early this afternoon.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Governor Huckabee, congratulations.
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), Presidential Candidate: Thank you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The first question, is you had a lot less money.
MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: You had a much smaller organization.
MIKE HUCKABEE: Mm-hmm.
JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you think you did it in Iowa?
MIKE HUCKABEE: I think we did it because we had a message that people resonated with.
And they wanted to believe that there was still a place in American politics for a person who didn't come at them with a lot of money and razzle and dazzle, but came at them with an authenticity that they felt like was about them, not about the campaign, but about the people, who are supposed to be the very recipients of all this message we create.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you think that what happened in Iowa translates to the state of New Hampshire, where we are right now, a very different state...
MIKE HUCKABEE: Sure.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... everybody has started to point out?
MIKE HUCKABEE: Americans different in some maybe thoughts or emphasis still have the same ideas. They want a government that lets them be free, that leaves them alone, that doesn't interrupt and interfere with every aspect of their life, that lets them go to work and keep more of what they've worked hard to have.
Those are principles that I think are valid anywhere. Now, there may not be as much focus, for example, in New Hampshire on the sanctity of life or maybe even traditional marriage, as you would see in Iowa. But on issues like lower taxes, less government, and then a more efficient government, that'll be a focus here in New Hampshire that I think is universal anywhere.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Why do you think there's less focus on those issues here?
MIKE HUCKABEE: It's probably just because of the demographics of the state.
There are a lot of conservative people on social issues -- values voters I think is now the vogue term -- a lot of them here in New Hampshire. But this state has a long history, dating all the way back to the fact that it was the state that declared independence six months before the rest of the country did.
It's an independent state. Their motto, live free or die, and they mean it up here.
Mike Huckabee
Mike Huckabee
Presidential Candidate
There's this sort of myth that Christian conservatives only care about God and gays. Well, you know what? Christian conservatives care about their families eating. They're concerned about energy independence.
Despite N.H. polls, Huckabee fights
JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, you're coming in here competing in a place where the polls are already showing Governor Romney and Senator McCain neck and neck. You're way back. Are you going to compete all the way here?
MIKE HUCKABEE: We'll compete. Whether or not we can win New Hampshire, that's never been something that we said we had to do. We knew that we needed to do well in Iowa. We didn't think we had to win there to stay on our feet.
But we're running first place in South Carolina, first place in Florida and in Texas and a lot of other states. And, so, what we want to do is to still be one of those people that are competing in these early states, and then start winning in places like South Carolina and Florida.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you...
MIKE HUCKABEE: In essence, we ended up doing better than we thought in Iowa, better than we should have done, by anybody's conventional standards of how politics is supposed to play. We might even surprise some people in New Hampshire.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, Governor Romney, among other things, this morning, he complimented you on your win, but he went on to say that you were helped, in his words -- and he used the word unusual several times -- unusual strengths. And he mentioned the fact you're a pastor.
Your base, something like 80 percent, or maybe even more, of the vote that you received in Iowa was from Christian conservatives. And they are saying you don't have that situation in New Hampshire. You don't have it in a lot of other states.
MIKE HUCKABEE: You know, there's this sort of myth that Christian conservatives only care about God and gays. Well, you know what? Christian conservatives care about their families eating. They're concerned about energy independence. They're concerned about functional government.
And so the fact that they're Christians, there may be a lot of them in Iowa, doesn't mean they're not also fiscal conservatives, doesn't mean they also want a strong national defense and they want a strong position on terror. Those are issues that are also important to them.
So, I think it's the same mind-set that said all along when you say, the commentators say that this is why it was, these are the same commentators that said, if I didn't have $100 million by the end of the year, I wouldn't make it. Well, I made it, so they were wrong. And I'm still here.
Mike Huckabee
Mike Huckabee
Presidential Candidate
I felt that the positive approach worked better for us there. And people appreciated it. His ads hurt us, there's no doubt about it, because he attacked me.
Negative campaigning backfires
JUDY WOODRUFF: Governor Romney also ran some pretty tough ads.
MIKE HUCKABEE: He did.
JUDY WOODRUFF: He might say they're not so tough. He would say just that he's pointing out the facts...
MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... about your record, being lenient with illegal immigrants in the state of Arkansas.
Do you expect that kind of a campaign here over the next few days? And, if so, are you going to run ads that are critical? You ended up pulling one back in Iowa.
MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes.
You know, I felt that the positive approach worked better for us there. And people appreciated it. His ads hurt us, there's no doubt about it, because he attacked me. He ran over 14,000 ads in Iowa -- that's a lot of ads -- many of them targeted toward me.
In addition, Washington special interest groups, like Club For Growth, hammered me with over half-a-million dollars of negative, nasty television ads.
But I think, at the end of the day, a lot of people in Iowa just said, you know, this political dumpster-diving has got to stop. It demeans all of us and the system. And no matter what they said, people just got to the point they said, I'm not believing this stuff.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And does that mean you're not going to be criticizing him? I mean, what exactly does that mean in this campaign?
MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, I certainly reserve the right to defend my record. I reserve the right to point out where he's been completely inaccurate when he's portrayed things on my record, which he has on many occasions.
Senator McCain's doing a pretty good job of taking him on here in New Hampshire, because he did the same thing to Senator McCain here that he tried to do to me in Iowa, and that's just act like, "Well, we're both good men, but" -- and then relentlessly hammer away and make up things about our records, which I found very offensive.
It's one thing to say something about my record that I have to say, hmm, boy, he got me on that one. I really did it.
But when he said things like that I had cut the sentences for methamphetamine dealers, when, in fact, I had doubled the sentences, and they were four times harsher than his in Massachusetts, meth labs went down 48 percent in my state during the time I was governor, when he said that I increased spending, and The New York Times called him out on that, and pointed out that his figures were totally made up, and that, in fact, my expenditure increases during the 10-and-a-half-year tenure was pretty much in line with what he had done in his four years in Massachusetts.
JUDY WOODRUFF: You mentioned John McCain. The two of you are saying pretty nice things about each other. Some people are wondering if you have reached some kind of a pact, where you're not going to -- where you're basically going to let each other alone.
MIKE HUCKABEE: It's not about a pact. I think it's about the fact that both of us believe that the discourse of politics ought to be more civil.
We both believe that we have unique positions that we ought to stand for. We're not so weak in our own positions that we have to attack somebody else as to kind of do the political sleight of hand, so, watch this hand, so you don't see what I'm doing with this one.
I think both of us have records that we can proudly stand on and defend. So, I don't have to attack John McCain. John McCain doesn't have to attack me.
Besides that, I do -- I like the guy. I think he's an honorable guy, and I've said that publicly. I've said it in debates. I will say it to you. I will say it to anybody.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Are you going so far as to say as you would cede New Hampshire to him, that you wouldn't compete as much here?
MIKE HUCKABEE: Oh, I don't know about ceding anything. I think he's in a very strong position. He's a well-known commodity here. I'm not that well-known here.
He's spent a lot of time, has deep relationships here. He'd be the favorite to win it. But five days is a long time in New Hampshire. I'm not giving up yet.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, the turnout in Iowa last night, big turnout -- bigger turnout on the Republican side...
MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... much bigger on the Democratic side. In fact, the turnout in the Democratic, almost twice what it was among Republicans, even though the voter registration is about even.
Does that say something nationally that should be a cause for concern for Republicans?
MIKE HUCKABEE: Not yet. No, I don't think so.
We had a much bigger turnout than was predicted. Some people thought that the turnout would be as low as 80,000. It was clearly over that. We saw that. We went to Waterloo, almost couldn't get in, got stuck in traffic, didn't think I'd get in or get out and get back to Des Moines.
In fact, when I got back to Des Moines, I landed, my BlackBerry was lighting up like crazy when we got to turn it on. Turned out, while we were gone, flying around, trying to get back there, I'd won the doggone Iowa caucuses.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Governor Huckabee, thank you very much, and congratulations, again.
MIKE HUCKABEE: Thank you, Judy.
Judy Woodruff
Judy Woodruff
Senior NewsHour Correspondent
I was told by one of McCain's very close friends in Iowa. He said: Just watch. When we get to New Hampshire, we're holding nothing back. And, sure enough, you're seeing that here in the ads that they're running.
Huckabee, McCain vs. Romney
JIM LEHRER: More from Judy now and to Margaret Warner.
MARGARET WARNER: Hi, Judy.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Hello, Margaret.
MARGARET WARNER: In that interview, very interesting interview, you just did with Mike Huckabee, he seemed to be tamping down expectations for himself in New Hampshire.
But what are his people saying privately? What kind of an opening do they say they see and how hard a fight are they saying they're really going to mount there?
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we spent time talking to them on the plane last night, Margaret. And then, just a few minutes ago, I talked again with one of his leading -- Governor Huckabee's leading strategists, who said -- very clearly, he said: We are in third place right now. Our internal polling shows us. We think we can come in second here if everything goes right for us.
He says: We've got the resources. We've got the money. He's been able to raise money that he couldn't raise before. He said: We are up on television. We will be for the next few days.
And he says, very blatantly, very openly, they are working a coordinated strategy, you might say, with John McCain to go after Mitt Romney. They don't want Mitt Romney to win New Hampshire, and they're doing everything they can to prevent it.
MARGARET WARNER: And then what about Romney and McCain, who, at least up until this eve-- up until last night, were leading in the polls in New Hampshire? How were they adjusting today to the post-Iowa reality?
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, I don't know if it's the shoot-out at the OK Corral, but it may be the modern-day equivalent of that.
JUDY WOODRUFF: You talk to the McCain people, and all -- they can barely get the words out. Many of them are personally angry at some of the ads that you heard Governor Huckabee refer to.
And they say -- I was told by one of McCain's very close friends in Iowa. He said: Just watch. When we get to New Hampshire, we're holding nothing back.
And, sure enough, you're seeing that here in the ads that they're running and in what John McCain is saying himself. He commented today -- he said, for Mitt Romney to call himself an agent of change is just laughable.
And, then, for Romney's part, the Romney campaign part, I just, within the hour, spoke with one of his senior strategists. And they say, look, we know Iowa was a blow. We know that it's been a setback for us, but we still see a path to success. And it's kind of like a chess game.
They say that, in fact, Huckabee doing well hurts McCain. They also say Obama doing well hurts McCain, because he takes away some of the independent vote here in New Hampshire. And, finally, they say: We're running ads. We're going after McCain on immigration. We're going after him on opposing the Bush tax cuts.
They have a very specific strategy that they say will lift them up. So, they're all very clear, and it's not very pretty.
MARGARET WARNER: Well, Judy, I'm sure you're going to have a great time covering it this weekend. And we'll see you Monday.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you. See you.
David Brooks
David Brooks
New York Times
I think Romney spent $1 million on one radio station here in Iowa. I think - I read he spent $237 a vote. It doesn't get you there if you don't have the message. And that's something that needs to be - we need to be reminded of from time to time.
Huckabee threatens establishment
JIM LEHRER: And to the analysis of Shields and Brooks, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, who's in New Hampshire, and New York Times columnist David Brooks, who's in Iowa.
David, any new insights overnight as to why Mike Huckabee did so well in Iowa?
DAVID BROOKS: No, I don't think so.
I mean, there are some big stories. The money is a good story. Huckabee talked about it with Judy. And we all -- people in Washington place so much value on money. It's not that important. Message is so much more important.
I think Romney spent $1 million on one radio station here in Iowa. I think he -- I read he spent $237 a vote. It doesn't get you there if you don't have the message. And that's something that needs to be -- we need to be reminded of from time to time.
JIM LEHRER: Mark, on the point that Huckabee made that he's not ceding anything in New Hampshire to McCain or anybody else, what are his prospects? What do they look like in New Hampshire at this point?
DAVID BROOKS: He could come in second and that would be...
MARK SHIELDS: New Hampshire is not a good fit for Mike Huckabee. He...
JIM LEHRER: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, David. I was going to ask -- I was going to bring Shields in for a -- just a moment or two.
DAVID BROOKS: Oh, that's...
JIM LEHRER: OK. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
MARK SHIELDS: Thanks, Jim.
JIM LEHRER: Go ahead, Mark.
MARK SHIELDS: And thank you, David.
He's not -- Mike Huckabee is not a natural fit with New Hampshire, either stylistically or ideologically.
He is -- perhaps stylistically is unfair, but ideologically and philosophically, he is not. This is a state that has been not terribly friendly to Southerners in the past, including John Edwards most recently in 2004.
But I think, most of all, Jim, he put his finger on it. I mean, it's a state that is different in its libertarian impulses than are the religious values voters, who gave him his great victory in Iowa.
But I think he's hot right now. He's already had an enormous impact on this race. He took the well-oiled, well-disciplined, almost inevitable machine of Mitt Romney and dismantled it in Iowa. And he gave John McCain a new lease on life by so doing. So he's changed -- and I'll tell you this. He has struck terror into the Wall Street tax-cut, tax-break cadre of the Republican Party. They will do anything to stop Mike Huckabee.
JIM LEHRER: Do you agree with that, David; the Republican establishment will do anything now to stop Mike Huckabee?
DAVID BROOKS: I don't know if they would do anything, but they do want to stop him. And that's why I think ultimately they'll go to McC--
JIM LEHRER: Why? Why? Why is it so important to stop him, David?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, (A), they think he's unelectable. They think someone who doesn't believe in the theory of evolution is not going to win in the fall.
But, (B) -- and Mark and I have talked about this in the past...
JIM LEHRER: Yes.
DAVID BROOKS: ... he is not your classic free-market Republican. He is someone who really pays most attention to people earning $30,000 to $50,000 a year. And those people sometimes need some security. And that security has to come from government.
And that doesn't mean he'd structure it the way the Democrats do. It's overstated to say he's a socialist, which Romney and other people have implied. But he does not share the same old "libertarian government is always the enemy."
But I think what he does have to do right now is saying: I'm not running against the Republican Party.
This would be a mistake. He has taken on Rush Limbaugh. He has taken on the Club For Growth, but he can't go for the next two and three months saying: I'm against Republicans.
He's got to pivot and talk about the conservative stuff, the economically conservative stuff he did in Arkansas. That's the only way he's going to get this thing.
JIM LEHRER: Mark, how do you think Huckabee has handled himself so far in the interview with Judy and other things he's said since he won last night in Iowa?
MARK SHIELDS: Jim, I think he's been superb.
And I thought, in one passage there in his interview with Judy, he put his finger on his success. At Franklin Roosevelt's funeral, there was a radio reporter along Pennsylvania Avenue, where people were packed 30 deep, and he saw one well-dressed man who was just bereft. He was in tears.
And the radio reporter asked him, he said: Did you know President Roosevelt?
And he said: No, but he knew me.
And Mike Huckabee put his finger on it when he said, campaigns are not about the candidates. They're about the voters.
And that's the kind of campaign he's run so far. And that is a secret. It isn't about: I'm ready. I'm fit to be president. I'm qualified to be president. I want to be president.
I mean, it really is about the voters. And I think Mike Huckabee understands that probably better than anybody else in this race.
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